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> EMS - Bugfixed and PHB-ish magic for NWN
arQon
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 09:34 AM
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EMS creator and DN Offical Bug Manager


Group: DN Design Lead
Posts: 4650
Member No.: 297
Joined: 14-September 04



I wonder if it'll accpet a post this long...


Terminology

To save confusion:
CHARACTERS have levels. Spells have CLASSES. Fireball is a CLASS 3
spell, learnable by a LEVEL 5 Wizard or a LEVEL 6 Sorc.

R/L means "1 round per caster level". Likewise with T for turn and
H for hour.
10/L means "10 points per caster level"
N/2L means "1 N per 2 caster levels", i.e. +1/5L means +1 for L1-5,
+2 for L6-10, and so on.
(F/2), (R/2), and (W/2) after a spell's damage means a save of that
type for half damage.
A spell with damage listed as e.g. "Ld4 B + Ld4 C(R/2)" means that
ONLY the cold has a Reflex save, and the physical has none.

Anything noted as "Correctly (per BW)" means that a bug was fixed
in BW's implementation relative to THEIR description of the spell:
it may well be that the behaviour is not PHB, and often not even sane,
but that's not the point. :P
It's very common for PHB to say one thing, BW to SAY another, and the
BW code to DO a third. In those situations I've made judgement calls,
generally favouring PHB first, BW's supposed behaviour second, and BW's
actual behaviour last, because frankly they're just not very good at
getting code right.


************************************************************************

Global Changes
--------------

Spells use real saves. Treating a 1 as a failed save even if you beat
the DC is beyond retarded. Want to kill a 60HD Epic Dragon with a level
11 char? Just Slay Living a couple of times and wait for a 1...
Yes, I know this is the "brilliant" new 3E rule. It's still one of the
most atrocious design decisions in history.

Empower has been bugfixed. In NWN, 2d4 Empowered can be 12: roll 8,
multiply by 1.5. 2d4 Maxed though is always 8. This is pretty clearly
not how things should work.
Empower is now (roll+max)/2, so it's always better than un-Empowered
(which also isn't true in NWN); never better than Maximised; and on
average is exactly the +50% it's supposed to be.

Spell Resistance works correctly. Yes, it's broken in unpatched NWN:
level 11 casters get resisted by SR12. SR checks are now shown as well.
SR against your own spells also works correctly, but is not shown as
it tends to flood the screen if you're in your own AoE's.

Dispels work correctly. This is huge (not to mention unique in NWN. :P)

AoE's work correctly. There is a known bug with ALL non-instant AoE's
in NWN where their SP, DC's, caster level, and metamagic can (usually, do)
become wrong as soon as any other spell is cast. For example, a Cleric
who casts Blade Barrier and then Turns Undead will suddenly discover
that the BB does 0d6 damage.

Spells correctly handle Evasion and Improved Evasion.
Creatures that are stunned, paralyzed, asleep, or petrified don't get
to use Evasion. I mean, ffs. Yes, Evasion is Supernatural, but you're
Helpless. YOU CAN'T MOVE *AT ALL*.

Multi-target homing spells like firebrand and the Isaacs will only hit
visible targets.

The Bigbys will switch to a new enemy once their initial target dies.
The new target must be visible to the caster, as this is a "directed"
attack, not an automatic one.
If the new target successfully resists the spell, or the Bigby misses,
fails a grapple check, etc, it vanishes.
Attempting to control multiple Bigbys of the same class at the same
time reduces the duration of ALL of them because your focus is divided,
and they will all expire when the oldest one does.
While they still don't permit stacking they at least TRY to avoid
completely wasting a second casting, by retargeting themselves if the
original target already has the SAME class of Bigby active on it.
Bigby 8 and 9 now face SR on EACH attack rather than just once. This
avoids the absurd situation where a caster attacked by Bigby 8 gets
stuck in a permanent loop of "Fort Save, fail, stunned for 1 round"
because even a scroll-cast version of the spell is almost impossible
to dispel. This way, if they manage to make the save they can at least
cast a Mantle and absorb the spell on its next attack.

Summons are T/L rather than H/L. You don't need to be a one-man party
all the time if magic actually works.
Summon VII+ correctly now include Earth elementals (BW use d3, oops :P)
Summon I-IX cause a Battle of Wills unless cast from memory, regardless
of the caster's class. If you lose, the creature will go hostile.
Gate causes a Battle of Wills under ANY circumstances. You receive a
+4 bonus if you are have a Protection From Evil, Aura Versus Evil, or
Magic Circle Against Evil in effect, and a -4 penalty if you do not.
Rogues Do Not Gate, and neither does an L3 Wizard with a scroll. :)
Planar Summons do not require a Battle of Wills since the creature
is of your alignment and considers you an ally.
Creating Undead requires a Battle of Wills unless cast from memory.
Fixed an exploit where Munchkins could take a single Cleric level and
the Animal domain to get improved summons as mages/Druids/etc.
Fixed a bug with the various Shadow Conjurations summoning higher
undead than they should (they share the script with Shadowdancers,
so they were just using the casterlevel to determine the creature
rather than the actual SPELL that was cast).

Spells that require a melee touch attack (poison, slay living, etc)
now correctly do the attack BEFORE checking SR.

Charming does not work properly on NPC's at HC and above, so it has
been converted to Daze on those difficulty settings.


************************************************************************

HotU Spells and Weapon Enhancement
----------------------------------

1.62 introduced "temporary item properties" and spells to go with them:
essentially, a way to make weapons +X, Keen, have bonus damage, etc.
None of them work correctly in several important ways.
The damage bonuses are done as spells, which means they don't do xN
damage on crits; they don't activate Cleave if they cause a kill; and
they can't ever be Dispelled. They also stack with each other, with
a weapon's existing bonuses, etc: i.e. you can have a sword that does
2d6 Fire damage "naturally", and also 1d6+5 Darkfire and 1d4+10 Flame
Weapon, for a grand total of up to 37! bonus damage on every hit. That's
not counting Divine Might and Divine Favor, Bless Weapon, etc, which can
take the bonus to over 60.
As usual, most also have implementation bugs on top of everything else:
e.g. Darkfire is supposed to go up to +10, but BW never could get math
right. :P

I'm repairing these as time goes by, generally by changing the damage
to fixed amounts (this is required by NWN engine limitations) based on
caster level and fixing the stacking bugs.
The Dispel issue is a bit more work, and I'll address that when I have
time.


************************************************************************

Arcane Spells
-------------

Cantrips

Resistance
U+1, T/5L


Class 1

Charm Person
Correctly is considered a hostile action
Duration raised to R/L

Color Spray
Blindness has been removed, since it's LESS detrimental than
being stunned. We now Sleep at <=3HD to compensate.

Endure Elements
10/- ER, H/L, exhausted after 20/L of any given type

Expedititious Retreat
Per PHB is T/L

Grease
Per PHB has no SR (physical effect)
Per PHB has a fixed DC of 10
Per PHB lasts R/L

Identify
No longer stacks with Legend Lore

Mage Armour
Per PHB, +4 is all to ArmourAC
Becomes +20 and R/L after L21 to act as a replacement for EpicMA, if caster
meets the prereqs (C9's and 26+ SC) and is casting it on themselves.
Two reasons for the EMA hack: first, NWN doesn't handle Epic Spell prereqs
correctly; and second, +5 split across the different AC types tends to
actually be +0 to everything but Dodge, because it doesn't stack with items.

Protection From Alignment
Duration is T/L per PHB

Scare
Fear for 1d4 R (W) or Shaken for 1R

Shield
Correctly gives a (duh) SHIELD AC bonus...

Sleep
Correctly does not affect creatures with 5 or more HD
Per PHB is 4HD not 4+1d4, and T/L not R/L

True Strike
Since this still has a miss chance in NWN and no bonus damage, it needs
to last longer than a single attack. It's pretty useless even then really:
it's not like a wizard's 1d4 dagger +0 STR is going to do much damage. :P
It's good for MTA's, but given the casting time on those it HAS to last
more than 1.5 rounds. 2R, plus 1R per 4 caster levels above 4.


Class 2

Ability Buffs
Per PHB +4 rather than 1+d4, and T/L rather than H/L
There's actually real value to casting these rather than drinking them now

Belgaran's Iron Horn
The DC of the Strength Check is 11+CasterBonus rather than a constant 20.
Note that contrary to the spell's description, it's school is actually
Enchantment not Transmutaion, and BOTH are wrong: should be Evocation. :)

Cloud of Bewilderment
This is just idiotic: it's Stinking Cloud again, only MORE powerful and a
level lower. Now Daze rather than Stun and Will rather than Fort.

Combust
Stupidly overpowered: 10x the damage of Acid Arrow
Now correctly requires a successful melee touch attack
Lasts R/L max, primary and secondary damage both just L fire, max 10
Frankly, it's still stupidly overpowered
Correctly can be cast at a target more than once

Continual Light
Actually works now

Darkness
This ridiculously overpowered spell is now PHB's 20% concealment

Flame Weapon
Completely rewritten to work at least somewhat decently
Note that per BW the duration is actually 2T/L, not T/L like Darkfire

Gedlee's Electric Loop
(Since BW are Canadian, I wonder if it's named for Geddy Lee of Rush :P)
Caster now excluded, placeables now targets
Radius increased to 10ft: 5ft is absurd - in NWN that usually doesn't
even hit two creatures standing side by side
Stun effect removed: it's too much for a spell this low-level
Damage increased to Ld6, 5d6 cap still in place

Ghoul Touch
Correctly blocked by poison immunity
Correctly affects everyone but caster on HC+

Melf's Acid Arrow
Compresses the damage into 3 rounds at most
since BW say that the engine doesn't cope well with multiple rounds
Correctly can be cast at a target more than once

Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Gives correct feedback when used against mindspell-immune creatures
Duration is PHB's R/L, not BW's d3R

Resist Elements
20/- ER, H/L, exhausted after 40/L of any given type

Web
Per PHB has no SR (physical effect)
Per PHB lasts R/L


Class 3

Clarity
Correctly (per BW) 1T+R/L
Also removes Fear
Note that it does NOT remove Insanity caused by a Prismatic Spray, or any
other Permanent effects: you need Greater Restoration or Mind Blank for those

Flame Arrow
Damage is correctly 4d6 each, does SR correctly

Gust of Wind
Per PHB, gust always originates from you and does not affect you

Mestil's Acid Breath
Fixed inconsistent range

Negative Energy Burst
Successful Willsave also negates the STR damage

Protection From Elements
30/- ER, H/L, exhausted after 60/L of any given type

Stinking Cloud
Correctly blocked by Poison Immunity
Per PHB has no SR (physical effect)
Per BW lasts 2R and save is rerolled every R even if failed

Vampiric Touch
THP duration is T/L rather H/2L


Class 4

Bestow Curse
Correctly requires a successful melee touch attack

Charm Monster
Correctly is considered a hostile action
Duration raised to R/L

Confusion
Hostiles only. Too many mods fall apart otherwise when PvP is on

Contagion
Correctly requires a successful melee touch attack
Correctly has a Fort-negates save

Elemental Shield
As of 1.62, the OnHit retaliation is NOT OnHit, it's On*Damaged*
which is a completely different situation and far less desirable.
You have d4 HD. If you have to TAKE damage to DEAL damage, guess
who's going to die first?
BW have said it's highly unlikely they will ever fix this, so
I've increased its duration to 2R/L so it delivers something
resembling the number of retaliations overall that it used to.
Damage has been split to 1d6+L/2 points of each of Fire and Cold.
This is very slightly more damage than before, but also less damage
overall against creatures with elemental DR.
Note that OnHit retaliation ignores metamagic. Not a big deal here
since the majority of its damage comes from caster level anyway.

Enervation
Per PHB does NOT have a Fort Negates save

Evard's Black Tentacles
Duration now correctly (per PHB and even BW) R/L.
Per PHB, creatures inside the tentacles move at half speed.
Per PHB, there is no Fort save: you either resist the grapple or you
don't. You are also NOT paralyzed, merely immobilized.
The "grapple check" math is now correct and scales with the caster,
and is also a true grapple. BW just had it as 5+d20 vs AC, which is
why this spell has generally been considered a joke: the tentacles
couldn't "hit" most creatures on anything except a 20.
Per BW, the tentacles are +2 "weapons", so GV etc will NOT reduce
the damage inflicted by them.
Unlike BW, attacks are NOT combined, so DR is applied correctly.

Fear
Per PHB is Will Partial, not Negates: a successful save leaves the
target Shaken for 1R. Caster is immune since this is supposed to
be a cone emanating from them, not a generic splat.

Ice Storm
No save is nice, but, erm, it's weaker than fireball even when
you first get it, and it gets weaker still as you get older.
The caster causes giant hailstones to fall from the sky onto
targets in a Huge area, to a maximum of 1 per caster level.
Enemies nearest the epicenter are struck first.
Each hailstone does 1d4B and 1d4C per 2L, with no save.
All creatures in the area NOT directly struck by the hail,
including the caster and her allies, are not Bludgeoned
and get (R/2) for the Cold.

Isaac's Lesser
Can be targeted, does 1d4+1 per missile, does SR correctly,
chooses targets correctly.

Phantasmal Killer
Fixed a huge bug where mindspell-immune creatures could still be
killed by this: any time a spell's save and its effect don't match,
BW's scheme falls over completely.
Creatures who fail the Will save but succeed at the Fort save are
shaken for 1R rather than damaged.

Stoneskin
Also confers immunity to Critical Hits (and implicitly, Sneak
Attacks) as do Greater Stoneskin and Premonition.

Wall of Fire
Per PHB is R/L not R/2L
Per PHB is 2d6+L damage not 4d6+0
Per PHB is double damage to undead
Per PHB does NOT have a Reflex Save


Class 5

Ball Lightning
Correctly has an R/2 save
Correctly does damage in ONE chunk
Basically, BW totally screwed it up trying to get pretty visuals
so it was actually a Electrical Missile Storm, which meant 5/- DR
would consume the whole thing since it was L * 1d6 rather than Ld6.
Converted to an area spell because it obviously should be one.

Cloudkill
Correctly only affects living, correctly uses poison immunity
rather than deathmagic immunity, correctly damages <=6HD when
they enter the cloud, correctly applies any vsAlignment etc
bonuses when saving.
SHOULD BE: creatures >6HD take -1d4CON/R(F/2), not some trivial
non-amount of acid dmg. HOWEVER, CON drains don't stack in 1.62
which makes that useless. Have changed it to do -4 CON on entry
and d6 points negative damage per round, duration is R/L.

Cone of Cold
Range is now correctly 60ft

Dismissal
Correctly no longer dismisses friendly summons on HC+
Has the correct DC

Dominate Person
Duration raised to T/L (it should be an HOUR per level! but that
would kinda suck in SP :P)

Feeblemind
Correctly also drains CHA. Still uses the BW 1d4/4L scheme rather
than nuking them to 1, because spellbooks fall apart otherwise.

Firebrand
If not nerfed, this spell makes ALL other C5's worthless.
Huge range, Huge damage, huge number of targets, no selfdmg:
why get close enough to use CoC when you can just hurl this?
L arrows to a max L of 15, doing d6/L damage to a max L of 10.
AoE now correctly Colossal rather than Gargantuan.
Still an absolutely monstrous spell.

Lesser Mind Blank
1H+T/L
Also removes Fear


Class 6

Acid Fog
Correctly (per BW) does 24 damage on enter when maximised
Per PHB has no SR (physical effect), no save, and lasts R/L
Per PHB obscures sight: 100% miss chance on ranged attacks

Bigby's Forceful Hand
Correctly (per BW) causes 1d8 B damage. Includes caster bonus in
the bull rush check because otherwise it has no value as a spell,
only as a scroll.

Chain Lightning
This spell's design is fundamentally flawed.
Secondary damage needs to be at least 10d6 rather than L/2 d6.
An L12 caster does 12d6 primary but only 6d6 secondary under the
original spell, whereas the standard Lightning Bolt will do 10d6
to all targets. Realistically speaking, Chain is SIGNIFICANTLY
WEAKER than Bolt despite being 3 classes higher, and even worse
off when compared to a C3 Fireball which doesn't have LOS
restrictions.
Given that this spell has to compete for slots with IGMS; Tenser's;
the Greater forms of Breach, Dis, and Stoneskin; Ethereal Visage,
and more (C6 has by FAR the best combination of spells overall,
arguably more so than even the C9's) there is simply no point in
this spell even existing, as it is today.
Considering that a Cone of Cold does 15d6 to ALL its targets and
is a class LOWER, there is no justification for Chain being so much
less effective. Damage is Ld6 to ALL targets now, but capped at 10d6
for secondary targets. This preserves the "spirit" of the original
spell, but without the crippling defect.

Circle of Death
AoE is correctly Colossal rather than Large.
Correctly doesn't try to slay constructs.

Flesh to Stone
Correctly fails against creatures with Stoneskin. :)

Legend Lore
This rather pathetic spell (erm, HALF the bonus of Identify? Huh?) has
been completely overhauled.
If cast on yourself it functions as the BW version, except that you
receive the full bonus to Lore rather than half.
If cast on an item though, it does something rather fun... :)
You study a single item intensively, with the intent of divining and
possibly altering some of its magical properties.
The degree of success is determined by your caster level and any
relevant bonuses (ability modifier, Divination focus, etc) against a
base DC of 11 plus the item's value in KGP
DC11: the item is successfully identified, regardless of its value
DC $: you make the item usable by your class
DC $+2: you make the item usable by any class
DC $+5: you make the item usable by your race
DC $+7: you make the item usable by any race
DC $+10: you make the item usable by your alignment
DC $+12: you make the item usable by any alignment
This spell does not in any way alter the mundane properties of the item:
a suit of Full Plate is still Heavy Armour, and cannot be equipped unless
you have the requisite proficiency no matter how you alter its magical
properties

Isaac's Greater
Can be targeted, does 1d4+1 per missile, does SR correctly,
chooses targets correctly.
Yes, 1d4+1. Deal with it.

Tenser's Transformation
Per PHB, plus the caster is given a Greatsword of the appropriate level
since it's retarded to expect them to lug one around just for this.
(Gnomes and Halflings get a Longsword).
L11: +2, 1d6 M
L14: +3, 1d6 M
L16: +4, 1d6 M
L18: +5, 1d6 M
These values will let the caster equip the item even if ILR is on.
The bonus damage is M rather than F, as it just makes more sense.
There is a known but minor issue with resting while Transformed:
you will be left with the GS (although it will have become mundane
at least) unless the module actually advances the game clock, which
standard NWN does not.
If you are using these scripts in your own module, calling
SpecialisedDispel(OBJECT_SELF, SPELL_TENSERS_TRANSFORMATION) in the
OnPlayerRest script will also take care of the problem.

Undeath To Death
No longer TMI's if you have more than about 12 undead in range
Slays targets outright rather than damaging (which fails if they have DR)


Class 7

Banishment
Correctly no longer banishes friendly creatures on HC+
Gives the appropriate XP reward for any outsiders banished. If the
moron classes get XP for hitting things then casters should get XP
for actually playing like mages.

Bigby's Grasping Hand
Can now "grapple" creatures immune to paralysis: BW's implementation of
BigbyIX suggests that this is the correct behaviour

Control Undead
Duration now T/L

Delayed Blast Fireball
Correctly only triggered by HOSTILES on HC+ rules
Before 1.62, there used to be a little glowy effect where the DBFB was
that seems to have been removed, which kinda sucks :(
The trigger area for this spell is utterly microscopic. Don't blame me:
I can't fix that.

Great Thunderclap
Can not be cast if the caster is Silenced (fixes a loophole bug where it
could still be cast from items)
Does not affect creatures in zones of Silence, except for the shockwave

Mordenkainen's Sword
The sword cannot be damaged, only dispelled
Does 4d6 damage and is a +3 weapon with one attack per round, per PHB
Note: it is NOT subject to WoF as it is a plane of force, not a creature

Power Word Stun
Like all spells, this wasn't designed to function at epic levels.
As a result, it becomes less useful than even the C1 Color Spray,
which CAN stun a 22HD creature.
Thanks to the THP bug, Enervation and even EnergyDrain don't help.
The HP limit basically makes it yet ANOTHER "Fort Negates" spell,
like EVERYTHING above the C5 Hold Monster is. gg Fighter-only NWN.
So here's how you fix it:
You can stun up to 10HP per caster level for 1d4 rounds. For every
50pts over you are, you get an extra 1d4 rounds.
See how easy that was? :)

Prismatic Spray
Range is now correctly 60ft
Non-scaling spells are conceptually flawed, so the Blindess now affects
creatures of <= 1/2 your caster level rather than <8HD, and its duration
has been lowered to 2d4 R per PHB. The Reflex effects are now
1: Ld2 Fire, 2: Ld4 Acid, 3: Ld8 Electricity
Most of the other effects are now per PHB
4: Poison, 1d6 CON if you SAVE, and DEAD if you don't
6: Insanity, which is permanent until magically removed
7: Death, is by Planar Shift: Death Magic immunity will NOT save you
5 is still Paralysis per BW, because petrification sucks, but the duration
has been raised to R/L rather than just 10R


Class 8

Blackstaff
This is the worst spell in history. Completely redesigned.
You bring a shimmering stafflike plane of force into existence,
similar to Mr Pointy. The staff's attack bonus is equal to your
caster level plus your INT/CHA bonus, with an additional +4
enhancement bonus. It deals 1d6+4 points of damage per hit,
with a threat range of 20 and a critical multiplier of x2.
The staff is a significantly inferior combatant to Mr Pointy,
but makes 2 attacks per round rather than 1, and on a successful
hit will attempt to Dispel Magic on the target, at your caster
level.
The staff cannot be harmed by physical attacks, but is subject
to Dispel Magic, Dismissal, Banishment, etc. For Dismissal, the
staff's Will save is the Will save of its creator at the time of
the staff's creation.

Horrid Wilting
Water ellys take double damage per PHB. Caster is immune per BW.
Damage is 1d8 per caster level to a maximum of 20, not 25.

Incendiary Cloud
Per PHB has no SR (physical effect)

Mass Blindess/Deafness
Enemies only. Also note that BW has this in the wrong school.

Mind Blank
1H+T/L, all allies in Huge area
Also removes Fear

Mass Charm
Correctly is considered a hostile action
Correctly charms all Monsters, not just Humanoids
Per PHB, always attempts at least one creature regardless of HD
Duration raised to R/L

Premonition
I've got nothing against adding to or improving on the PHB spells,
but this "Uber Stoneskin" is just dull. Let's make it fun. :)
You gain the ability to see a few moments into the future.
This grants you a +2 bonus to Reflex Saves, DodgeAC, and Initiative.
You are never flat-footed, and you react to danger as if you had the
Improved Evasion ability. You can frequently avoid melee attacks
completely, and turn those that do connect into merely glancing blows.
Duration changed to T/L

Sunburst
Correctly blinds non-vampiric undead.
Uses a single throw for half-damage and voiding blindness,
as opposed to BW's two-throw version (which is easier, but wrong).
Damage has been increased to d8, as there's basically no reason
to use it otherwise: at d6 it has the same damage as a DBFB, but
is a slot higher, and a lot of undead (mummies etc) take 150% fire
which generally makes this a worse spell overall without that.
Note: since HOTU added Undeath-To-Death, this spell is almost
completely pointless anyway.


Class 9

Bigby's Crushing Hand
Correctly uses the target's STR for the grapple check: BW used
the caster's. :)
Note that this is a real Grapple check, and the numbers are correct,
but they're insanely high: the Hand has 35 STR (+12) and is Large (+4)
so even a BAB20 Fighter is going to have a very hard time with it.

Black Blade
Now has the correct feats.
Does NOT require concentration.
Is a +5 weapon that gets one attack per round, causing 4d6+5+2 damage
per hit, with a critical threat of 17-20x2.
The sword's AB is now correct, though limits in NWN mean it will not
quite get the full AB it should when cast at high levels.
The rift DC now actually works consistently.
The rift now has the correct DC (10+9+casterbonus) rather than BW's
10+casterlevel. This stops rogues from creating DC27 Slay weapons
from scrolls.
The sword's SP is now correct.
The FIRST time the sword strikes a creature with SR, it must succeed
at an SP check or is dispelled.
Note that being sucked into a Planar Rift is a physical effect:
Immunity to Death Magic will NOT save you from it unless EMS_SOFT_DEATH
is enabled.

Dominate Monster
Duration raised to T/L (it should be an HOUR per level! but that
would kinda suck in SP :P)

Energy Drain
Per PHB does NOT have a Fort Negates save

Gate
Fixed a bug where the Gate was delayed twice (6s rather than 3).
As with other summons, you must win a Battle of Wills to control
the Balor. If you are protected at the time you open the Gate,
you receive a +4 bonus on the Battle. If you are NOT protected,
you receive a -4 penalty.
Note that BW use a pathetic Balor of roughly half the real one's
level for a "hostile" Gating. I do not. :)

Meteor Swarm
This is supposed to be Ice Storm's big brother, but it's LESS
effective. It doesn't scale with the caster; it has an R/2 save
that translates to no damage for Evaders and 10d6 *at best* for
ImprovedEvaders.
Creatures within 6ft take no damage? Players move nearly 60ft
in the time between you casting a spell and it actually firing.
Where the hell do you think the guy ATTACKING me is by then?!
It's just terribly designed, plain and simple.
The caster causes giant meteors to fall from the sky onto
targets in a Colossal area, to a maximum of 1 per caster level.
Enemies nearest the epicenter are struck first.
Each meteor does 1d4B and 1d4F per L, with no save.
All creatures in the area NOT directly struck by the meteors,
EXCLUDING the caster herself but including her allies,
are not Bludgeoned and get (R/2) for the Fire.
Yes, I know that's 40d4 at level 20. Wilting is 20d8 and a
class lower, and not subject to DR.

Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Has so many bugfixes I couldn't list them all.
In a nutshell, it works correctly now: every case, every combination.
I preserved the BW opposed roll, because otherwise any newb with a
scroll could strip an L90 Mage naked with it, which is clearly wrong.
See the notes at the end of this file for some evil new functionality
that you can optionally enable in your module. >:)

Power Word Kill
Same basic design problem as PWS. Here's how you fix it:
You can kill up to 6HP per caster level.
See how easy that was? :)
The AoE aspect (something BW added) is ridiculous. 20HP?!
If fired as an AoE it just selects the nearest visible hostile
within 15ft of the target location.

Shapechange
Too many fixes and improvements to list. It no longer totally sucks,
but it's still not great.

Timestop
Is MP-friendly and suitable for PW's
Per PHB lasts 1+d4 R and caster can take no hostile actions while time
is stopped (or if she does, they have no effect) with an exception for
dispels and breaches
Fixes (technically, bypasses) an engine bug where the ordering of
effects created during a TS is incorrect

Wail of the Banshee
Counts targets correctly. BW "charges" for ALL creatures rather
than just those it tries to slay (i.e. hostiles).
Range is correctly 40ft, not 30.
Creatures who save still take L+3d6M damage - this is an AoE FOD,
and it should act like one.

Weird
Per PHB, and nothing like BW's (which is a defective non-spell)
Anything <=4HD dies
Anything that fails W dies
Anything that's still alive takes 3d6 M, is stunned for 1R,
and takes d4 STR damage for 10R
Note that Weird is a Fear spell: Immunity to Death Magic will NOT
save you from it unless EMS_SOFT_DEATH is on.


************************************************************************

Epic Spells
-----------

Such a farce. The whole "Epic Magic" desperately needs some actual DESIGN
effort put into it, but here are quick fixes for the two offensive spells.

Save DC is now CASTER level plus caster bonus. Even DEX 8 Clerics can make
the Reflex save on Hellball under the stock rules, because Epic Spells have
LOWER DC's than normal spells.
They can also benefit from PHB Metamagic now.

Hellball
Uses all 5 elemental damage types rather than 4, but is still pathetic.


************************************************************************

Divine Abilities
----------------

Turn Undead

Creatures that have already been turned are no longer turned over and
over again. This is a huge benefit: since turning has a HD limit, those
creatures continue to drain HD from the cleric's total turning ability
under the BW implementation, thereby stopping multiple turnings from
actually affecting any new or stronger creatures.

Turned creatures have their movement speed halved. This is more a case
of fixing bugs than anything else:
If you're attacking something with a fear effect in NWN, the game tends
to move you close to the target, then stop you, then move the creature
away, so you never actually get to ATTACK it even if you're hasted
and it's a zombie. Even worse is that creatures that are knocked down
magically spring up and run away, and it's just SO annoying.


Divine Might/Shield

Are now correctly Supernatural, which stops them being removed by Dispels


************************************************************************

Cleric Spells
-------------

Cure Wounds

Correctly have W/2 when used as attacks on undead.
Correctly damage undead with POSITIVE energy, not negative. :)
Are Maxed on Easy and Amped on Normal, rather than Maxed on both.
Fixed an exploit where Munchkin Druids could take a single Cleric
level and the Healing domain to Amp all their Druid Cures.


Class 1

Bane
Correctly is considered a hostile action

Divine Favor
Damage type is (duh) Divine rather than Magical


Class 2

Silence
Correctly grants immunity to sonic damage to ALL creatures:
BW only does hostiles, which means it helps them but not you!
The immunity may last for a few seconds after you leave the AoE:
this is because it has to be applied for 2 rounds rather than 1
to work around a bug in NWN with unreliable AoE heartbeats.
Correctly DOESN'T silence the caster, so you can actually USE
the spell now. ffs...
Would now actually work if cast as an AoE, except NWN doesn't
let you use it that way since BW screwed their implementation up
so badly. You can fix this by changing spells.2da to allow it.


Class 3

Darkfire
Completely rewritten to work at least somewhat decently

Glyph of Warding
Correctly only triggered by HOSTILES on HC+ rules
Correctly does not remove Invis/Stealth/etc from caster when triggered
Has the correct DC, SP, etc (all the standard BW AOE bugs)
On entering the Glyph's AOE, creatures make a Spellcraft check, DC11 plus
the caster level of the Glyph's creator. If they succeed at the check, they
are assumed to have detected and disabled Glyph rather than triggered it.

Prayer
Works correctly when cast at a location or on someone other than
the caster. If cast on a creature, moves with them.

Searing Light
Correctly does d8/L to vampires


Class 4

Divine Power
STR is +6 per PHB, not "always 18"
Increases Discipline by 1/L, though it's fairly meaningless since
IKD etc have such a broken design

Hammer of the Gods
Per PHB does Ld6 to Outsiders

Neutralize Poison
Correctly also grants T/L immunity

Poison
Correctly requires a successful melee touch attack
Correctly has a Fort-negates save


Class 5

Circle of Doom (Mass Inflict Light Wounds)
AoE is Large: matches Healing Circle (was Medium)

Flame Strike
Correctly hits ALL creatures with the fire portion on HC+

Healing Circle (Mass Cure Light Wounds)
See "Cure Wounds" fixes above


Class 6

Harm
Per PHB inflicts up to 10HP/l and is capped at 150HP.
Under normal circumstances, Harm will never kill a creature:
if the damage caused would be fatal the creature is reduced to 1HP
instead. However, targets that are unusually susceptible to
Negative Energy may in fact be killed.
Note that Harm DOES have a save: it's Will for half damage, same
as every other "Inflict XYZ Wounds" attack.
Munchkin Clerics are going to hate me forever... :(

Heal
Per PHB cures up to 10HP/L, unlike PHB is not capped at 150HP.
Removes all harmful effects that Restoration can, as well as Disease
and Poison.
Correctly gives an Amp bonus (+50%) to Clerics with the Healing domain.
Correctly has W/2 when used as an attack on undead.


Class 7

Destruction
Same as everything else: spells that don't scale with the caster are
fundamentally bad design, especially when you're talking about 10d6
damage even when it's a Rogue using a scroll. There isn't really a
good way to fix this without nerfing it for real casters too though,
so damage is now d4 per level with no cap.

Greater Restoration
As Heal, but also removes Charm, Confusion, Curse, Daze, Domination,
Fear, Slow, Stun, and true permanent negative levels (i.e. ones caused
by an Energy Drain - this is the ONLY way to remove such negative levels
other than a successful dispel against them).
Note that it can NOT be used as an attack against Undead.

Word of Faith
I'm not really sure how this ended up so utterly broken. I think it's
because the Luskan Captains in CH4 cast it a lot, so it was hacked up
specifically for the OC.
Correctly (per PHB WoC, and BW themselves even!) does NOT blind.
Correctly per PHB WoC gives summoned creatures a W-4(N) save.
Correctly does NOT banish MrPointy (a plane of force is not a creature).
Correctly per PHB WoC applies the effects based on RELATIVE level
rather than absolute.


Class 8

Aura vs Alignment (Holy/Unholy Aura)
AC and Resistance bonuses are correctly vs Everyone.
Be careful: the icons are a little confusing, as they're the inverse
of the Protection From Alignment ones: Holy Aura is "vs Evil".

Earthquake
Correctly affects all creature, not just those in line-of-sight.
d8 damage for every 2 caster levels, max 10d8, R/2.
No creature other than the caster can move or attack for one round.
1% chance per caster level of opening a fissure beneath an enemy
(second Reflex save to avoid that, automatic fail if they already
failed the first save) for another d8/2L damage (PHB says instant death:
be thankful for my kindness. :P)

Fire Storm
Actually applies the Divine damage to Evaders who only save vs the *Fire*
Nice bug - no wonder it's always felt so weak. :)

Mass Heal
Correctly does not require a touch attack when used against Undead
AoE is correctly (per BW) Large

Sunbeam
Correctly blinds non-vampiric undead.
Correctly does double damage to vampires.
Uses a single throw for half-damage and voiding blindness,
as opposed to BW's two-throw version (which is easier, but wrong).
Damage isn't increased to d8 like Sunburst, because Clerics DON'T
have always-superior spells at this level or below like mages do
with DBFB and Wilting.


Class 9

Implosion
Per BW, an instant effect with no limit on creatures killed
(PHB is 1 per round to a max of 4 and requires concentration)
As with Wail, creatures who save still take L+3d6M damage.


************************************************************************

Paladin Spells
--------------

Holy Sword
Correctly dispels at your Paladin level
Correctly grants SR vs Evil equal to your Paladin level


************************************************************************

Druid Spells
------------

If you're wearing metal armour, which is anything other than Cloth or
Light, any spell you attempt to cast will AUTOMATICALLY FAIL.
I don't care that BW incorrectly gave you Medium Armour proficiency,
or that you can MC to Fighter and run around in Full Plate with no
side-effects. EMS is about fixing bugs, and that's a bug. Deal with it.
You're lucky you don't lose all spellcasting for 24 hours, which is
the real rule.


Class 1

Charm Person or Animal
Correctly is considered a hostile action
Duration raised to R/L


Class 2

Barkskin
Per PHB is 1+1/3L. Still H/L, though it should really be T/L


Class 3

Call Lightning
Correctly only targets visible enemies
Correctly only targets one enemy per level, to a max of 10
(Placeables are freebies, because I'm kind and unlocking/bashing
them is dull as hell)

Infestation of Maggots
Duration is correctly R/2L
Correctly requires a successful melee touch attack
Unlike all the other broken HOTU "single-cast" spells, this one is
STAYING single-cast, because it's a retarded Munchkin spell.
It should probably be changed to just deal damage instead.
Can no longer reduce CON below 4 or kill the target: it's absolutely
outrageous to give creatures Death Spells this early.

Quillfire
Another BW spell, another disaster.
This is the same class as Poison. It does Poison AND damage.
Seriously, does anybody there even PRETEND to design this stuff?!
Now requires a ranged touch attack; damage type is piercing; damage
is d8+L/2 with the cap removed; and there is no poison.

Spike Growth
Correctly checks for SPIKE GROWTH effects to avoid stacking, BW checks
for Greater Magic Fang. Way to use constants guys. :P
Duration dropped to R/L: permanent AOE's, which is essentially what
this is, are incredibly bad for the engine.
Duration of Movement Speed Decrease dropped to 1 Turn: PHB says the
effect is removed by any Cure spell, so anyone would simply drink a
Cure Minor and be rid of it immediately. NWN requires Restoration,
which is far too "expensive" for such a low-level spell.


Class 5

Inferno
Behaves more like Combust: the target gets a Reflex save each round
to negate the spell; the damage is 1 point per caster level to a max
of 15; and it can be cast at a target more than once.

Owl's Insight
T/L, not H/L. This "50-point buy" crap really gets on my nerves.


Class 6

Crumble
Genuinely has no SR

Drown
Typical BW-created disastrous excuse for a spell.
Nothing should EVER do stupid things like "90% of HP". It's the same
crap as BW's Harm: take a 700HP Ancient Dragon and instantly turn it
into a Goblin with a retarded Munchkin spell.
Reimplemented as 1d6 per caster level to a max of 15d6 or half the
target's current HP, whichever is lower; and F/2 rather than Negates.
Also fixes a bug in BW's where the damage was susceptible to DR.


Class 7

Creeping Doom
Correctly has no SR (BW has SR on first round but not others)
Correctly has no movement speed decrease (BW's constant copy+paste
from Acid Fog means virtually every AOE they did has that... :P)
Correctly per PHB is constant damage per round (1 point per level)
not BW's retarded scaling damage, and has no damage limit.
Stop whining you sadcase Munchkins: if this was a REAL implementation,
it would be 20 bites at 1 damage each, so any amount of DR would negate
the entire thing.


Class 8

Bombardment
Really shouldn't have SR or a save, but it's BW's creation so blame them.
Note that contrary to the description, the damage is actually capped at
10d8 rather than 20d8; and it targets ALL creatures, not just enemies.
I've raised the cap to 15d8 and left the rest of it unchanged.

Nature's Balance
SR drop works correctly

Premonition
Druids cannot cast this spell, and never should have been able to.
It makes no sense at all, and was a side-effect of BW turning
Magical Foresight into just "Even Greater Stoneskin".


Class 9

Elemental Swarm
4T/L rather than 24H


************************************************************************

Bard Spells
-----------

Class 4

War Cry
Damage bonus now Sonic rather than Slashing: so many things have DR for
physical damage that it basically doesn't do anything otherwise, and this
is one of the very few Bard spells that doesn't utterly suck to begin with.
Also, the Fear effect has been raised from a constant 4R to R/L, and
creatures who succeed at the Will save are still shaken for 1R.


************************************************************************

Monster Spell-Abilities
-----------------------

Virtually all of BW's monster abilities are broken: defective math,
wrong creature, wrong duration, missing save, wrong DC, etc etc.
Fixed so far: auras, gazes, howls, cones, tyrant fog zombie / ghast,
bolts.
Not fixed yet: pulses, dragons (aura, breath, wingblast),
krenshar, salt mephit, steam mephit, stink beetle.
Howls now correctly do not penetrate zones of Silence.

Petrification spells and abilities now fail against creatures with
Stoneskin. The combination of the defective 1=autofail saves, no SR,
ignoring mantles, and no immunity to petrification meant that just
2 or 3 basilisks in a room was a guaranteed death, even for L40 chars.
Cockatrice Petrification Touch Attacks now NEED TO SUCCEED AT A
TOUCH ATTACK FIRST. BW scripts suck SO much. >:(

Hell Hound Breath now scales with the creature and has R/2 save.


--------------------
azmaveth> so, for my first stint as a dm, I feel the need to spawn a dragon or two on a party of babies...
dave> go find Kev when he makes his next baby :p
dave> he prolly kill it
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dave
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 10:21 AM
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shad but true


Group: DN Design Lead
Posts: 14077
Member No.: 78
Joined: 30-March 03



Hehe, you cleaned up some language in there. ohmy.gif

I've got some specific DN-centric reactions and other misc comments, but not til I'm home later tonight. Thanks for the post for everyone's consideration. smile.gif

-shad


--------------------
Dreu Noctem
- featuring arQon's EMS Spell system
- DN Bug reports go here or here!


[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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Phage
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 12:55 PM
Quote Post


Divine Asskickerologist


Group: DN Module Designer
Posts: 1523
Member No.: 117
Joined: 5-July 03



Some thoughts:

You are in favor of disabling autofail in 1 for spells, right? Does it involve 2da modification? I believe that 1.64 will include this but well, it won't *just* affect spells. Maybe. I dunno.

Empower Spell: here's the description given in the PHB v3.5 in its entirety.
QUOTE
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. An empowered spell deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many heal points, affects half again as many targets, and so forth, as appropriate. For example, an empowered magic missile deals 1-1/2 times its normal damage (roll 1d4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile). Saving throws and opposed rolls (such as the one you make when you cast dispel magic) are not affected, nor are spells without random variables.

I think Bioware got the implementation right for this one. Of course, whether you do (1d4+1) * 1.5 or (1d4)*1.5 +1 is open to interpretation. But otherwise, a lucky max roll on an Empower should've been more than a Maximize.

Mage Armor: Current implementation of Epic Mage Armor at the present is +10 Armor AC, +10 Deflection AC, IIRC.

Combust: a nice spell for those wizards who *want* to risk their pretty neck in engaging opponents in melee. Face it, not many wizards want to get hit. I don't have any problem with Combust being stronger than Melf's AA since firing a Melf's is less hazardous for one's health.

Melfs AA: By compressing the damage to 3 rounds, does it mean rolling more dice per round? Or simply capping the damage?

Continual Light/Flame: How didn't it work before?

Flame weapon/Darkfire: I think they are already correctly non-stacking. I've tested in DN at least.

Mestil's Acid Breath: *thank* you. biggrin.gif

ILMS and IGMS: oh well. *twitch* Are you sure IGMS is still on par with, say, Chain Lightning? Talking about Chain Lightning...

Chain Lightning: *THANK* you biggrin.gif

Horrid Wilting: IIRC it was d6. Did you turn it to d8 or was that a typo?

Sunburst: The BW spell is actually better than you think wink.gif But if you wanna make it in line with Horrid Wilting for the undead...

Meteor Swarm: Mirificus already did a fix for this. See the spell documentation.

Wail of the Banshee: Yeah, it prolly is mass FoD. But you can wipe out the whole screen with high enough DC! I think it might be a bit too powerful if you add the damage when save is made... but I dunno.

Weird: I'm not sure what the new version would look like. We'll see.

Flame Strike: Hmm, we'll see about the friendly fire thing.

Harm/Heal: Actually, you're going to improve on the version that we already have in place now. Our Harm has variable damage, capped at 150, and Fortitude negates. No wonder we don't have Harm-toting clerics around anymore.

Firestorm: Thank you. tongue.gif

Sunbeam: Erm, now. I know that clerics are not supposed to have spells that can match a wizard's at the same level. But this is against UNDEAD. Clerics are supposed to be good undead hunters. I always find it funny that Sunburst is clearly superior to Sunbeam even though it belongs to a class that aren't supposedly being a PITA for undeads. Also consider that a druid, having access to both Sunbeam AND Sunburst, will not have a hard time choosing tongue.gif Prolly you should reconsider so that each spell has its own specialty that makes one superior on one application and inferior on another. *twitch* I dunno ohmy.gif

That's first round. I might have more during further reading ohmy.gif


--------------------
Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
-----------------------------
Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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dave
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 01:18 PM
Quote Post


shad but true


Group: DN Design Lead
Posts: 14077
Member No.: 78
Joined: 30-March 03



Vic +arQon,

I was under the impression Chain Lightning currently has a bug such that it usually does more damage than it should. Bioware is also fixing this in 1.64, if I remember. It's not like no one uses it, but I don't the details at my fingers. But yeah, it's b0rked either way in BW.

Horrid's always been d8, no?

As for Meteor Swarm, it's worth a test drive methinks. I'm not nuts about the idea of picking and choosing what to take from this work; it's all or nothing, IMHO.

arQon,

I think you underrate BW's truestrike. It's not a wizard spell, it's a multiclasser melee spell. It has no somatic component, so you cast it in full armor. PnP lasts for one attack, but that translates poorly into NWN, so it got a fixed 9 second duration. That's good for 4+ attacks by L20 for a certain builds like this, this, and this Arcane Archer to be. True Strike, as BW built it, was bread and butter during some painful development years for the two older characters I linked to there. It is already one of the best spells as is, IMHO, for the right build. Can be tasty for RDDs/PMs, too. Anyway, my sorc/blackguard loves this, even at L23.

Anyway, at the moment, the only changes I would have planned for arQon's work would be to preserve some of our flavor summon spell modifications (Incubi/Succubi, and Domain selection/deity fields controlling elemental summons type).

-shad


--------------------
Dreu Noctem
- featuring arQon's EMS Spell system
- DN Bug reports go here or here!


[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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arQon
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 02:35 PM
Quote Post


EMS creator and DN Offical Bug Manager


Group: DN Design Lead
Posts: 4650
Member No.: 297
Joined: 14-September 04



> You are in favor of disabling autofail in 1 for spells, right?

Yes

> Does it involve 2da modification?

No

Autofail is moronic. You can take a level 1 char and just spam FODs at a level 60 enemy from scrolls until it rolls a 1 and dies. That's beyond ridiculous.

> Empower Spell

This pretty much comes down to what we call "statistically significant sample sizes" (fear my alliteration tongue.gif) in my line of work, but simply put, I would hope it's obvious that Empower at times being STRONGER than Maximize is clearly wrong. Think of it as having a level 2 fireball spell that does 6d10 damage compared to the normal fireball's 10d6 - that's essentially what's happening here.
BW arguably got it right in that, yes, that's the PHB wording. The problem is, PHB got it wrong because that method is there to simplify the rolls, NOT to provide the best possible behaviour. When you have a PC doing all the rolls for you, there's no need to shortcut things just to make the DM's life easier.
The INTENT of Empower is that it provides, on average, a 50% increase to the power of a spell. Both methods do that, but the BW one can provide a *250%* increase in power in pathological cases. (If you're more comfortable with absolute numbers, that's a 360 damage IGMS).
If that didn't make any sense, let me know and I'll try and explain it differently. Or you could just trust me. tongue.gif

No, EMA is +5 to each of Enh/Nat/Def/Dodge

Combust IS still stronger, except for the very first level you get them.
At level 3, Melf is 3d6 (~10)
At level 4, Melf is still 3d6 and Combust is 4 plus potentially another 12.
At level 9, Melf is 3d6+1d6+1d6, or about 17. Combust is 9 with no save, then another 9 for every round they don't save. If they fail even ONCE, it's the better spell. If they have a REALLY bad Reflex (I like to use it on undead, personally tongue.gif) that's 9 rounds of 9 fire, or *81* damage.

Yeah, Melf rolls extra dice if it needs to, so at level 12 where it used to be 3d6+1d6+1d6+1d6 it's now 3d6+2d6+1d6, and it eventually maxes out at 3d6+3d6+3d6 at level 18 (where, let's face it, 30 damage isn't exactly going to be worrying anyone).
To be honest, the "DelayCommands are OH NOES!" spiel appears to be total BS - there are a lot of PW's that have reinstated the original (pre-HOTU) Melf script and not one of them has said it actually causes them any problems that I've seen. But since I can't test MP, I opted to be safe rather than sorry.

Continual Light was broken on SoU installs, which is what I was on at the time.

> Flame weapon/Darkfire: I think they are already correctly non-stacking. I've tested in DN at least.

Yeah, looks like it: the script's been updated since HOTU's release. They still stack with OTHER bonus damage though, which is explicitly forbidden in the spell's description, and still have the Cleave/crit/etc issues.

> IGMS
Yes. Don't make me get all mathematical on you... tongue.gif
1d4 ~= 2.5. 1d4+1 ~= 3.5. 1d6 ~= 3.5.
So IGMS damage is now actually EXACTLY in line with the other spells at that level, e.g. Chains, with you trading the superior area effect aspect of Chains for the no Save / no DR aspects of IGMS.

> Horrid Wilting: IIRC it was d6
Nope, it was d8.

> Sunburst
Like I say, I had to think about it, but then HOTU came out and Undeath just made it so worthless that I never revisisted it.

I absolutely agree with you on Sunbeam, and it cracks me up too.
[digs out old IRC logs...]
[05:44] <arQon> sunbeam is a JOKE btw
[05:45] <arQon> the *wiz* version is like 10x more powerful
[05:45] <arQon> against both undead and living
...
[12:43] <arQon> if you have a 3rd slot, i'd prolly use it for sunburst even in NON-undead areas
[12:44] <arQon> the 6d6 dmg is no big deal, but PERMANENT blindness can throw the entire battle the other way
[12:45] <arQon> the SIDE-EFFECT of sunburst is stronger than the FULL effect of a massblind, and that's a c8 as well
[12:45] <arQon> retards >:(

That aside, with the bugs I fixed in Sunbeam it's at least SOMEWHAT effective now. You could argue that a Cleric that actually needs spells to fight undead is a pretty ropey Cleric anyway. tongue.gif

>Wail
A level 20 caster is going to average 30 damage on creatures that make the save. Given how many HP a level 20's enemies have, my gut feel is that it really isn't going to be much of an issue, but we'll see.

>Weird
In the PnP world, Weird is THE sugar-scariest spell you never hope to see. The BW version is Wail but with an ADDITIONAL save, so that's clearly broken. The big downside to Weird from a caster's POV is that it's subject to at least two not-uncommon Immunities: Fear and Mindspells, and if EMS_SOFT_DEATH is on it's also subject to DMI. A Belt of Guiding Light disables both Wail AND Weird, and that doesn't leave too many "useful" offensive spells out of the 9's. The way I see it, spells at this level are SUPPOSED to be pretty monstrous. But yeah, it's one of those things you can't really get a solid feel for until you've playtested it a bit from both sides.

Flame Strike's FF bugfix is ONLY for HC or higher. With DN running Party PvP, it won't come into play.

This post has been edited by arQon on Feb 27 2011, 02:19 AM


--------------------
azmaveth> so, for my first stint as a dm, I feel the need to spawn a dragon or two on a party of babies...
dave> go find Kev when he makes his next baby :p
dave> he prolly kill it
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dave
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 02:47 PM
Quote Post


shad but true


Group: DN Design Lead
Posts: 14077
Member No.: 78
Joined: 30-March 03



We're running Normal difficulty with a server override to turn on critical vs PCs hits and AoOs vs bows & potions. Bioware Hardcore setting with Party PvP mode is somewhat odd; you can hurt your own pets and such, but not partied players. So we fake it with Normal mode overridden.

/me prefers party friendly casters, especially in Multiplayer.

FWIW, we try to keep immunities rare outside archtypes (undead can't be death magiked, etc) and bosses. Some bosses still have immunities. Immunities + autofail on 1 == misguided arms race escalation that wreaks havoc with balance, IMHO.

Heh, just re-read that Electric Loop comment. There are a few Canadians kicking around DN too. ohmy.gif wub.gif

-shad



--------------------
Dreu Noctem
- featuring arQon's EMS Spell system
- DN Bug reports go here or here!


[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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Torrilin
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 03:10 PM
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Posts: 1160
Member No.: 4
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QUOTE (arQon @ Sep 14 2004, 11:34 AM)
I wonder if it'll accpet a post this long...
Spells use real saves. Treating a 1 as a failed save even if you beat
the DC is beyond retarded. Want to kill a 60HD Epic Dragon with a level
11 char? Just Slay Living a couple of times and wait for a 1...
Yes, I know this is the "brilliant" new 3E rule. It's still one of the
most atrocious design decisions in history.


In single player, sure. In multiplayer, you don't get to save and reload *g*. For us, the fail on a 1 rule seems to be working pretty well as a nerf on *player* power. Just my humble opinion as a builder who's gotten whacked by our casters a time or two. Basically, this rule affects both sides equally and if occasionally you get darned lucky and get the great wyrm with a slay living, that just makes up for all the times you failed your own saves. Different design philosophy probably smile.gif.

QUOTE
Spell Resistance works correctly. Yes, it's broken in unpatched NWN:
level 11 casters get resisted by SR12. SR checks are now shown as well.
SR against your own spells also works correctly, but is not shown as
it tends to flood the screen if you're in your own AoE's.


Ok, this is a bug I've suspected for a while and never been able to confirm. I'd *love* to test drive this fix for sure.

QUOTE
Dispels work correctly. This is huge (not to mention unique in NWN. tongue.gif)


We've had a number of "dispel fixes" that we were sure worked. Upon further careful testing, they proved to still be broken. I can give you pointers if you need specific cases.

QUOTE
Multi-target homing spells like firebrand and the Isaacs will only hit
visible targets.


How are you handling concealment here?

QUOTE
True Strike
Since this still has a miss chance in NWN and no bonus damage, it needs
to last longer than a single attack. It's pretty useless even then really:
it's not like a wizard's 1d4 dagger +0 STR is going to do much damage.  tongue.gif
It's good for MTA's, but given the casting time on those it HAS to last
more than 1.5 rounds. 2R, plus 1R per 4 caster levels above 4.


I'd like to echo Dave's concerns on this one. We've actually considered a mass true-strike as a party friendly divination boosting high level spell. It's *that* good... it'd pretty much make losing divination an "ack, this wizard is useless" moment.

QUOTE
Belgaran's Iron Horn
The DC of the Strength Check is 11+CasterBonus rather than a constant 20.
Note that contrary to the spell's description, it's school is actually
Enchantment not Transmutaion, and BOTH are wrong: should be Evocation.  smile.gif


Hrm, but is it Evo because WotC was lazy, or is it Evo because Evo makes sense? Admittedly in this case I'd buy it being Evo... but I take WotC's judgement on that with a large grain of salt.

QUOTE
Continual Light
Actually works now


Not sure what was buggy about it.

QUOTE
Darkness
This ridiculously overpowered spell is now PHB's 20% concealment


*cheers*

QUOTE
Gust of Wind
Per PHB, gust always originates from you and does not affect you


I've heard reports of this one working as a generalized dispel. I haven't tested it since frankly I've always got dispel loaded and I don't have enough hotkeys for gust too. However, according to the PHB it should *not* work as a general dispel, it should only hit AoEs. Have you found anything in testing?

QUOTE
Elemental Shield
As of 1.62, the OnHit retaliation is NOT OnHit, it's On*Damaged*
which is a completely different situation and far less desirable.
You have d4 HD. If you have to TAKE damage to DEAL damage, guess
who's going to die first?
BW have said it's highly unlikely they will ever fix this, so
I've increased its duration to 2R/L so it delivers something
resembling the number of retaliations overall that it used to.
Damage has been split to 1d6+L/2 points of each of Fire and Cold.
This is very slightly more damage than before, but also less damage
overall against creatures with elemental DR.
Note that OnHit retaliation ignores metamagic. Not a big deal here
since the majority of its damage comes from caster level anyway.


Is this an engine bug? From your rant it sounds like it might be, but it's a bit unclear.


QUOTE
Ice Storm
No save is nice, but, erm, it's weaker than fireball even when
you first get it, and it gets weaker still as you get older.
The caster causes giant hailstones to fall from the sky onto
targets in a Huge area, to a maximum of 1 per caster level.
Enemies nearest the epicenter are struck first.
Each hailstone does 1d4B and 1d4C per 2L, with no save.
All creatures in the area NOT directly struck by the hail,
including the caster and her allies, are not Bludgeoned
and get (R/2) for the Cold.


Actually, this is *better* than fireball if it's implemented correctly. No damage cap is pretty darned tasty at L40... The fact that the Bioware area of effect is so small is somewhat less tasty, but that doesn't make it bad.

QUOTE
Isaac's Lesser
Can be targeted, does 1d4+1 per missile, does SR correctly,
chooses targets correctly.


We already have a fixed version of this in place. Testing yours would be fun tho.

QUOTE
Stoneskin
Also confers immunity to Critical Hits (and implicitly, Sneak
Attacks) as do Greater Stoneskin and Premonition.


I don't remember anything about crits in the PHB...

QUOTE
Dismissal
Correctly no longer dismisses friendly summons on HC+
Has the correct DC


I can pretty much promise you we'll be useless for testing this one. No outsiders ohmy.gif.

QUOTE
Dominate Person
Duration raised to T/L (it should be an HOUR per level! but that
would kinda suck in SP  tongue.gif)


Would suck in MP too.

QUOTE
Firebrand
If not nerfed, this spell makes ALL other C5's worthless.
Huge range, Huge damage, huge number of targets, no selfdmg:
why get close enough to use CoC when you can just hurl this?
L arrows to a max L of 15, doing d6/L damage to a max L of 10.
AoE now correctly Colossal rather than Gargantuan.
Still an absolutely monstrous spell.


Hi, meet the enemy casters, tleilax and RDDs... In a PW, we've got a lot more tools to influence spell choices *g*. This spell gets nerfed by a lot of our custom monsters that were originally designed to nerf Fireball and Delayed Blast Fireball (ab)users.

QUOTE
Chain Lightning
This spell's design is fundamentally flawed.
Secondary damage needs to be at least 10d6 rather than L/2 d6.
An L12 caster does 12d6 primary but only 6d6 secondary under the
original spell, whereas the standard Lightning Bolt will do 10d6
to all targets. Realistically speaking, Chain is SIGNIFICANTLY
WEAKER than Bolt despite being 3 classes higher, and even worse
off when compared to a C3 Fireball which doesn't have LOS
restrictions.
Given that this spell has to compete for slots with IGMS; Tenser's;
the Greater forms of Breach, Dis, and Stoneskin; Ethereal Visage,
and more (C6 has by FAR the best combination of spells overall,
arguably more so than even the C9's) there is simply no point in
this spell even existing, as it is today.
Considering that a Cone of Cold does 15d6 to ALL its targets and
is a class LOWER, there is no justification for Chain being so much
less effective. Damage is Ld6 to ALL targets now, but capped at 10d6
for secondary targets. This preserves the "spirit" of the original
spell, but without the crippling defect.


Sure there is... With standard empower, this is probably one of *the* sickest things you can stick in your L8 slots. We could probably debate this one for a long while tho *g*. Maximized it's still pretty nice, but probably not worth packing over real L9 spells unless you've got reason to.

QUOTE
Legend Lore
This rather pathetic spell (erm, HALF the bonus of Identify? Huh?) has
been completely overhauled.
If cast on yourself it functions as the BW version, except that you
receive the full bonus to Lore rather than half.
If cast on an item though, it does something rather fun...  smile.gif
You study a single item intensively, with the intent of divining and
possibly altering some of its magical properties.
The degree of success is determined by your caster level and any
relevant bonuses (ability modifier, Divination focus, etc) against a
base DC of 11 plus the item's value in KGP
DC11: the item is successfully identified, regardless of its value
DC $: you make the item usable by your class
DC $+2: you make the item usable by any class
DC $+5: you make the item usable by your race
DC $+7: you make the item usable by any race
DC $+10: you make the item usable by your alignment
DC $+12: you make the item usable by any alignment
This spell does not in any way alter the mundane properties of the item:
a suit of Full Plate is still Heavy Armour, and cannot be equipped unless
you have the requisite proficiency no matter how you alter its magical
properties


Interesting. What's the rationale behind the bonus?

QUOTE
Isaac's Greater
Can be targeted, does 1d4+1 per missile, does SR correctly,
chooses targets correctly.
Yes, 1d4+1. Deal with it.


Good change for SP maybe. Not so good change for MP IMO. Can we test and discuss? I've been hit by enemy caster IGMS enough to think "ohmighod ouch" but at the same time, it's nowhere near as effective as I like when I'm driving the caster. Ok, so the save or die spells spoil a girl... Deal wink.gif.

QUOTE
Tenser's Transformation
Per PHB, plus the caster is given a Greatsword of the appropriate level
since it's retarded to expect them to lug one around just for this.
(Gnomes and Halflings get a Longsword).
L11: +2, 1d6 M
L14: +3, 1d6 M
L16: +4, 1d6 M
L18: +5, 1d6 M
These values will let the caster equip the item even if ILR is on.
The bonus damage is M rather than F, as it just makes more sense.
There is a known but minor issue with resting while Transformed:
you will be left with the GS (although it will have become mundane
at least) unless the module actually advances the game clock, which
standard NWN does not.
If you are using these scripts in your own module, calling
SpecialisedDispel(OBJECT_SELF, SPELL_TENSERS_TRANSFORMATION) in the
OnPlayerRest script will also take care of the problem.


This looks potentially problematic for us. Anyone know if DN would handle the time thing correctly?

QUOTE
Banishment

See dismissal.

QUOTE
Premonition
I've got nothing against adding to or improving on the PHB spells,
but this "Uber Stoneskin" is just dull. Let's make it fun.  smile.gif
You gain the ability to see a few moments into the future.
This grants you a +2 bonus to Reflex Saves, DodgeAC, and Initiative.
You are never flat-footed, and you react to danger as if you had the
Improved Evasion ability. You can frequently avoid melee attacks
completely, and turn those that do connect into merely glancing blows.
Duration changed to T/L


Have you tested this with UMD rogues? This looks potentially very very destructive.

QUOTE
Meteor Swarm
This is supposed to be Ice Storm's big brother, but it's LESS
effective. It doesn't scale with the caster; it has an R/2 save
that translates to no damage for Evaders and 10d6 *at best* for
ImprovedEvaders.
Creatures within 6ft take no damage? Players move nearly 60ft
in the time between you casting a spell and it actually firing.
Where the hell do you think the guy ATTACKING me is by then?!
It's just terribly designed, plain and simple.
The caster causes giant meteors to fall from the sky onto
targets in a Colossal area, to a maximum of 1 per caster level.
Enemies nearest the epicenter are struck first.
Each meteor does 1d4B and 1d4F per L, with no save.
All creatures in the area NOT directly struck by the meteors,
EXCLUDING the caster herself but including her allies,
are not Bludgeoned and get (R/2) for the Fire.
Yes, I know that's 40d4 at level 20. Wilting is 20d8 and a
class lower, and not subject to DR.


Hrm, need PHB. IIRC our version is close to the PHB, but does not have correct targetting. *curses self for choice of reading material*

QUOTE
Weird
Per PHB, and nothing like BW's (which is a defective non-spell)
  Anything <=4HD dies
  Anything that fails W dies
  Anything that's still alive takes 3d6 M, is stunned for 1R,
    and takes d4 STR damage for 10R
Note that Weird is a Fear spell: Immunity to Death Magic will NOT
save you from it unless EMS_SOFT_DEATH is on.


Interesting. That could be a lot of fun *rubs hands together, chortles, and mentally begins redesigning NPC casters*
Class 2
- You didn't fix the doom bug(s)? If you need pointers, I can provide some details. AFAIK we have a semi-fixed doom version. I still wouldn't call it right tho.
QUOTE
Heal
Per PHB cures up to 10HP/L, unlike PHB is not capped at 150HP.
Removes all harmful effects that Restoration can, as well as Disease
and Poison.
Correctly gives an Amp bonus (+50%) to Clerics with the Healing domain.
Correctly has W/2 when used as an attack on undead.


Actually, this needs the PHB cap. Otherwise it makes stuff really really nasty for undead.

QUOTE
Earthquake
Correctly affects all creature, not just those in line-of-sight.
d8 damage for every 2 caster levels, max 10d8, R/2.
No creature other than the caster can move or attack for one round.
1% chance per caster level of opening a fissure beneath an enemy
(second Reflex save to avoid that, automatic fail if they already
failed the first save) for another d8/2L damage (PHB says instant death:
be thankful for my kindness. tongue.gif)


I'm not quite sure what you mean by "all creatures". All creatures in the area? All creatures in the module?

I'd have to echo Vic's comments on clerics and undead. Vs undead, a cleric should always be strictly better than any other class. I'd like to test the full package of changes tho before I make a call on the individual cleric spell changes.

I'd also have to echo his concerns about Empower. From my reading of the PHB, I'd argue that Empower is "take a gamble and have a chance to get really amazing damage, but then again, it might suck too". It strongly resembles a lot of M:tG coin flip cards, if you're into M:tG. With the version you describe, I'd put Empower as +1 spell slot, not +2. Maximize is a "yes I'm definitely getting max damage here", so it's clearly worth the +3. If you were definitely getting 1.5x, it'd probably be 4-5 spell slots higher. Too bad I can't get the idiot caster AI to cast Empowered Bull's Strength on their melee buddies... *sobs* It's such an effective tactic, but the AI is too dumb. Both as a player and a designer, Empower is pretty much a must have meta-magic. With the revised version, I'd never waste a feat on it.

Kalli
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arQon
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 03:16 PM
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EMS creator and DN Offical Bug Manager


Group: DN Design Lead
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If you ever run into problems with your pseudo-PartyPVP, EMS has a switch that disables FF even in HC mode, which means fair crits and bow/potion AoO's, but no areaspell damage to self/fam/party/etc.

I strongly approve of no FF for "team" play, and I'm very happy to see that DN opted for it. As others have pointed out, mages become extremely undesirable companions otherwise. (I wrote a huge treatise on this a while ago explaining why FF off should be the default even on HC - consider yourselves lucky that I don't feel the need to repost it here. tongue.gif)

--

If your char is 1W just for TrueStrike abuse, you won't really get THAT much additional benefit from the new version: 12s instead of 9s. Since I did that before I implemented the TrueStrike = automatic MTA hit, I might well drop it to 6s + R/4L, because it was the MTA issue that was annoying me more than anything else.


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azmaveth> so, for my first stint as a dm, I feel the need to spawn a dragon or two on a party of babies...
dave> go find Kev when he makes his next baby :p
dave> he prolly kill it
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dave
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 03:38 PM
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shad but true


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I did a closer re-read, and broswed Em's post too.

Em (Torrilin), he definitely fixed Doom. I auditted most fo the files we "both touched" already for general bug fixes (but not rework like Meteor Swarm).

Random thoughts ~

Tenser's & manual time advancement - we may have some code for this, I forget. If nothing else, it may be in there commented out awaiting the day that the module size exceeds whatever limit breaks the advancement of time. For now, the mod takes care of itself (we are not an 800 area PW, we're maybe pushing 200 and not quite at the breaking point yet).

The Legend Lore rework is pretty cool. And if I'm reading it correctly, I don't need to worry about people putzing with 100,000 gp item restrictions; the restrictions on those types of items are out of reach for LL modification. Cool change to add value to diviners.

I share some concerns with Em with respect to SS and Premonition. The immune to crits thing in particular.

I also think you underrate Ice Storm. Sure, it looks worse on paper, casually. But there's no saving throw, I forget if it honors SR (physical effect?), and as Emily points out, there is no damage cap. This thing outperforms fireball with some L20ish NPC casters in our mod (slig bards), let alone L40. The lack of saving throw also means rogues are out of luck to evade this. Very good spell as is/was.

I love the Power Word spellchanges. If/when I implement more spells, a whole series of Power Words was on my list to flesh out Divination a bit (Blind, Stun, Kill, Fall, Silence, Daze, Fear, Sleep, Confuse). A key feature of these is the lack of saves, which is almost too bad, as I wanted a way to make Spell Focus Divination useful. Perhaps a HP range wherein a save is permitted enveloping the range you implemented would work for me. Hmmm. Food for my thoughts anyway.

Tangentially, a lot of BW stuff is in weird/different spell schools. They moved the Power Word stuff into Div from Ench(?). I think it's more of an effort to balance out schools than anything overly stupid, but they fell back on ye olde "evocation is easiest to implement" routine by the time they had their run. I don't have an issue with weird spell schools, but I'd love to flesh out more schools to make specialization more painful. Or being a sorc.

Out of nowhere: I forgot to check if you have a fix for Blade Barrier stacking included, and don't see it mentioned. My to-do list is scattered, hehe, sorry.

Also, we are pseudo hardcore, more than pseudo PvP. Full Party PvP is working as per normal rules, we just turned on crits and AoOs.

Oh, and check my character links, hehe. 7-8 wiz/sorc levels in heavy armor and counting [the AA to be is not so, but oh well]. That said, point taken.

Anyway. Off to the pub I go.

-shad


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[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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Dustbunny
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 03:39 PM
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Balor in the Hole!


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QUOTE (arQon @ Sep 14 2004, 09:35 PM)
> You are in favor of disabling autofail in 1 for spells, right?

Yes

> Does it involve 2da modification?

No

Why autofail is moronic

The crux of this seems to be that the probability of failing/succeeding is capped at 5% no matter how large the difference between the roll and the DC.

It does seem silly that something obscenely powerful with +50 to save can be slain at 5% probability against an attack with DC30. To make it worse, a mage has the same probability of being successful with a save-or-die attack with DC24 or DC14. Practically speaking, that mage would proabably die when something that powerful so much as look at him, but that nonetheless does not reduce his chances of success on repeated save-or-die attacks. On the other hand, complete immunity by virtue of +50 to save seems a bit broken as well. It isn't technically immune, but is made practically so by removing autofail.

It seems like a probability function scaled to the difference between roll and DC is required, something like an Arrehnius type function. There proabably no chance of getting that eh?
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dave
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 03:47 PM
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shad but true


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Heh, as Emily says, one thing I like about autofail is I think it's good for multiplayer. As long as you stick countermeasures in the mod, it gives reasosn for people to party up and carry counter measures for each other. I believe it promotes teamplay in some way/shape/form.

-shad


--------------------
Dreu Noctem
- featuring arQon's EMS Spell system
- DN Bug reports go here or here!


[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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Torrilin
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE (shadguy @ Sep 14 2004, 05:38 PM)
I did a closer re-read, and broswed Em's post too.

Em (Torrilin), he definitely fixed Doom. I auditted most fo the files we "both touched" already for general bug fixes (but not rework like Meteor Swarm).


Fixed fixed or does it still have the -2 magic damage thing? As it stands, it irritates the hell out of me every time I go through hobgobs, since it doesn't do a helluva lot for 'em. Our current version *does* fix the missing will save problem, but not any of the others.

And furthermore, misclicking sucks. Misclicking with mod powers makes me darned grateful for browser cache ohmy.gif

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Phage
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 04:22 PM
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Divine Asskickerologist


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Fair enough.

I'm going to have to think more about IGMS, but you might've shortchanged wizzies a bit. Dunno tongue.gif Keep in mind that aiming IGMS for single targets is pretty difficult.

I guess I'll have to see about Sunbeam/Sunburst. And about Clerics needing spells... it's the principle of things to have clerics having the huge undead whoop-butt spell in their arsenal tongue.gif

Why don't I use Undeath to Death? Undeads in DN are unique: they're either very low levels or very high levels tongue.gif OK, fair enough, with additions with Halls of the Dead undead thingers there are medium level undeads too, but these guys are still gonna be pretty hard to utterly destroy using U2D. I think. I guess I should playtest my own creations with my wizard some time and see how U2D affects them tongue.gif I know that U2D is hard pressed to kill many of the high HD monsters in Great Graveyard Mausoleum, for example smile.gif

For the rest, I guess, we look and see smile.gif Nice thing about DN is that your stuff will get very extensively idiot-proofed with the bug fixing reports... so I'm sure the balance will get better somehow.


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Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
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Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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arQon
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 04:28 PM
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As far as Saves go, there's an option to use BW's saves instead. If you enable that and leave their flag (whatever it's called) for 1=Death on as well, you get 1.62 behaviour.

> We've had a number of "dispel fixes" that we were sure worked. Upon further careful testing, they proved to still be broken.

Bring it. tongue.gif

> How are you handling concealment here?

My reading of the rulebook is that Concealment explicitly only applies to miss chance. A spell that is not subject to miss chance is thus unaffected by it.
There's a reasonable interpretation that TOTAL Concealment (i.e. 50%) DOES count as invisibility, but it's a bit of a grey area. I'd be willing to consider a switch for it.

> Iron Horn

Neither. BW *says* it's Trans, BW *implemented* it as Ench, and since I don't have ?Magic of Faerun? to check and it blatantly should be Evo (IMHO tongue.gif) I just went with that.

> Gust of Wind
I've heard reports of this one working as a generalized dispel

Dunno. Mine's definitely AOE only, though TBH I'm not even happy with that attitude and have been quite tempted to make it explicitly only Acid Fog, Cloudkill, etc. The idea that you can use it to dispel e.g. *Silence* just seems absurd to me.
Like you though, I have enough real dispels kicking around that I never use it.

> Elemental Shield
Yeah, it's a (new) engine bug, and it drove me NUTS when I found out about it. It worked so well in SoU. sad.gif

> Ice Storm
This was a pre-HOTU fix, so level 20 max at the time. You have to admit though, it's a bit bent for it to (eventually) end up more powerful than *Meteor Swarm* now. smile.gif

> Chains
> With standard empower, this is probably one of *the* sickest things you can stick in your L8 slots

Yes - because it does 20d6 to ALL targets, so it's stronger than Meteor Swarm. BW quality code at work. Fixed. Sorry. smile.gif

> Legend Lore
> What's the rationale behind the bonus?

It means that scroll castings can't be (ab)used to do it: only Bard/Sorc/Wiz can actually benefit from the new version, and only by sacrificing a pretty high-level slot for a whole day.
If you mean the *DC* progression, it's based on the DC adjustments for UMD.

> IGMS
You not only CAN test and discuss, you're ENCOURAGED to. smile.gif
The rationale is, erm, around here somewhere - thread's a bit epic. tongue.gif

> Tenser's
Dave would know, but really: a mundane Greatsword isn't exactly a big prize for a level 11 character. Especially one who can't use it, sell it, or give it to someone else.

> Premo and UMD Rogues
If you use the EMS UMD rules, the DC for a Rogue to cast Premo is 32. You'd better be maxing it. smile.gif
EMS also fixes the "classic" 19F/1R and 19F/1W exploits for UMD, and supports per-spell admin controls for UMD by any class that can't NATIVELY cast the spell.

> You didn't fix the doom bug(s)?
Yeah, I did. Actually, it was one of THE first fixes, which is why it's missing from the docs - it predates them. smile.gif

> Heal vs Undead
Good catch. I removed the cap because with Epic chars having 600+HP it became kind of cantrippy: since a potion does 110, it makes more sense to just pound those rather than give up a spell slot. But yeah, I guess it probably does need to go back on. sad.gif

> Earthquake
"All creatures in range". BW has it so that if you hide behind a wall (or possibly even an Orc tongue.gif) when you see it being cast, it doesn't affect you.

Don't blame me for Sunbeam sucking sad.gif - "my" version is noticeably more powerful just from the bugfixes alone. I *know* it still sucks. I *understand* that it's retarded for it to be so much weaker than Sunburst. I *realise* that having both is sheer idiocy, especially with Druids *getting* both; that Sunbeam shouldn't even exist; and that Sunburst should be Cleric 8.
But that's not my decision to make, it's BW's (if you like pissing in the wind) or Dave's if you actually want it changed. Nag THEM. tongue.gif

> Empower is pretty much a must have meta-magic. With the revised version, I'd never waste a feat on it.

Then you'd be SO wrong. smile.gif
I think this is one of those things where you either understand the different curves intuitively or you don't, and if you don't then the only way to really get a feel for it is through actual play.

Bull's Strength doesn't have a roll any more, so it's not subject to Empowerment. (Waves copy of PHB in the air and denies all responsibility...)


--------------------
azmaveth> so, for my first stint as a dm, I feel the need to spawn a dragon or two on a party of babies...
dave> go find Kev when he makes his next baby :p
dave> he prolly kill it
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Phage
Posted: Sep 14 2004, 04:37 PM
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Divine Asskickerologist


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Sunbeam/Sunburst: heya man, not blaming you tongue.gif It's a rant on Bioware I've carried within for, oh say a couple months now ohmy.gif

Heal vs Undead: can you cap the damage if Heal is used as offensive spell, but no cap when used as healing spell? We don't, btw, normally use Heal potions in the server.

Empower: I think you gotta ask the player base for it. Put up a poll or summat tongue.gif


--------------------
Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
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Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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