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Phage
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 02:25 PM
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Divine Asskickerologist


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A Guide to Divine Asskickery: Cleric in Dreu Noctem

This is the companion thread to the guide. Here is where you can contribute content to be integrated into the guide once I start working on it.

I've started some content that I can put in tonight. But first, I need comments on the structure. Prolly the order?


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Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
-----------------------------
Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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Torrilin
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 02:48 PM
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Use your mod-fu Vic wink.gif

Anyways, no comments as yet. Will ponder and see what I can come up with.

Kalli
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dave
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 02:50 PM
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shad but true


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You may want to integrate information regarding our deities. Didn't see it mentioned explicitly.

The spells section should have some linnks to discussions of bugs and/or changes. I wouldn't do any significant work on that before seeing how our experiement with arQon's spell system goes.

-shad


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Dreu Noctem
- featuring arQon's EMS Spell system
- DN Bug reports go here or here!


[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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Phage
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 03:37 PM
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Divine Asskickerologist


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Good catch, Dave.

Spells: I will update as it goes.


--------------------
Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
-----------------------------
Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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D_Spear
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 07:34 PM
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Valkrye Conoisseur


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Vic i just restarted playing Brave Sir Robin and just realised how fun (powerful tongue.gif) clerics are.

I'll chip in and so forth when i have time smile.gif



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<My Character Thingies>

Arkinsire of Panor - Elven Ranger(10)/Assassin(7)
color=red]Brave Sir Robin[/color] - Human (Scaredy) Cleric(14)
Li'liath Genivia - Elven Fighter(7) - Potential Blackguard
Su-Char - Elven Fighter(6)/Monk(6)/Champion of Mithra(5)

teh wall of spear. Teh uber tank. Teh little ama that could (tank). - Dave.
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Strider
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 09:13 PM
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PowerMuchkinGamer


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Odd, after playing Piffany through 15 levels, my thought was this was the easiest character type I've played yet.

Course, this is my first character under the major area rework... Were Clerics hard before?


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Neil "Strider" Looby
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Phage
Posted: Sep 15 2004, 09:30 PM
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Divine Asskickerologist


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Maybe I should mention this in the guide... but probably not. Clerics are hard to play before HotU. Around middle ages, they were faced by an ugly truth: they suck as a fighter (Divine Favor? Greater Magic Weapon? Yah, right.) and they also suck as a mage. (Blade Barrier? Hah. Don't make me laugh!) My first attempt at a cleric, Varath, died at L10.

HotU brought changes that suddenly made clerics a very powerful combatant at middle ages, allowing them to get through their teens much easier.

My currently leveling cleric, Valiere, is built almost the same way as Varath, and she thrives.


First part of the guide is posted.


--------------------
Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
-----------------------------
Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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arQon
Posted: Sep 18 2004, 01:55 AM
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EMS creator and DN Offical Bug Manager


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> round middle ages, they were faced by an ugly truth: they suck as a fighter (Divine Favor? Greater Magic Weapon? Yah, right.) and they also suck as a mage. (Blade Barrier? Hah. Don't make me laugh!)

I think you underestimate them. Badly. smile.gif

Clerics shouldn't be thought of as Healing Kits with legs. Even BEFORE Spontaneous Healing, this was the worst possible way to play a Cleric in NWN, where HK's, Potions, and Gold to buy more of both than you can carry are literally more common than mud.

As a melee char, Clerics can outperform Fighters by a HUGE amount. But (and there, as they say, is the rub) only for a limited time. The worst-case difference in terms of BAB is 4, and while there's only one way for a pure Cleric to get the Fighter's extra attack "back", they can reclaim the +4 *to hit* MANY times over. Typically, all but the most junior Clerics will have BETTER attack modifiers than an equivalent-level Fighter when it actually matters: in other words, when facing the Mob Of Nasties or Captain Bastard, as opposed to just sitting around in the pub. smile.gif

Still, I'll leave that for you to talk about, and I'll stick to magic.

Blade Barrier is laughable only because you've never seen it actually work. At a minimum of 11d6 though, think of it as you getting to cast a free fireball every round. It slices, it dices, and anything caught in one for more than a few seconds is, well, chopped liver. smile.gif

For the most part though, Clerics should be considered "defensive" casters. They do get some absolutely ridiculous offensive spells, but nearly all of those are geared towards taking out ONE threat. They're no good against mobs, and ironically not much good against Undead either.

Clerics are all about the buff.

Having to spread your stats thinner than everyone else apart from Monk and Paladin seems like a huge handicap at first, but it has a flipside that translates into a very nice plus. If you need all those stats, then you benefit from BOOSTING all those stats too. After a few levels, you can essentially turn yourself into a FORTY-point buy character, because STR, CON, WIS, and CHA all help you out in different ways.

Sleep now, continue tomorrow. smile.gif


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azmaveth> so, for my first stint as a dm, I feel the need to spawn a dragon or two on a party of babies...
dave> go find Kev when he makes his next baby :p
dave> he prolly kill it
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Phage
Posted: Sep 18 2004, 07:04 AM
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Divine Asskickerologist


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Note that this was *before* HotU.

OK, probably you play your clerics in modules. *I* play my clerics in DN, where you gotta deal with higher HP enemies and such. Blade Barrier was good but at middle ages, you don't get too many of those. Ditto Divine Power - you don't get to cast too many of these, and some enemies in DN were dispel-happy at this point, so these kinds of stuff get blown away really easily.

OK, granted that at this point, Blade Barrier's AoE was prolly not broken tongue.gif

If you open up my character list you should see where I stopped: L10. Yup, just before L6 spells tongue.gif Life at L10 really did suck at that point.


*shrug* Enemies in DN had been improved since that point in that they have less HP and more nasty attacks, so probably Varath would've done much better at this point. Well.


--------------------
Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
-----------------------------
Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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D_Spear
Posted: Sep 18 2004, 08:51 AM
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Valkrye Conoisseur


Group: Dreu Noctem Player
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Vic, as i've said recently ive started to play my cleric (Brave Sir Robin) again, and it has been one heck of a breeze: (gonna describe the exp path and what kind of spells etc used)

Brave Sir Robin was level 9 when i began to replay: Equipped with +3 Fullplate +3 Tower shield, Longsword, Cloak of protection +3, <--- not quite sure if these were correct, but when level 10 came along, it was +3 longsword and ogre gaunts.
Domains = Travel, Magic. AKA: Haste and stoneskin.

Level 9 - Sewers of Paradan - Buffed Spider ripped everything, easy exp. Flameweapon yourself and charge.

Level 10 - Ogre Zerkers - Buffed up with spidy still, massacre everything easily. Stoneskin sucks up the damage nicely.

Level 11 - Slaads of the red and blue type. With a Summoned Bear (fragile, painful and high level for big spawns) and ~2 Hastes and ~3 Divine powers a rest, it was basically take on the small stuff with no divine / haste, and when a big battle happens (usually 1 slaad trainer, 3 blue's and 1-2 reds) i'd switch on divine power and haste, (AC of 40~ and AB of 20+). Stuff die fast. Took about 8-10 trips to level up (no longer then 30 mins.

Level 12 - Manticores and a mix of darklings for variety. Extended Haste, Extended Divine Power, Tiger for tank and big spawns, chop chop chop things to death. Only small problem = Dispel magic, but it ususally takes 3 dispels to clear all the buffs.

Level 13 - Current level, been killing - Grey slaads (bad exp for effort), snowshades (way too easy for exp), Even went and killed a few slig's at the high plains (haha was scary). Can kill anything without much effort in places my level 14 Barbarian / WM / Fighter has major problems = This is due to the incredible AC of my cleric = 40 when hasted (always).

Level 14 - Unknown = probably sligs?

Sorry for mini hijack tongue.gif Basically, erm, clerics are awesome fighters, way better then a barb / fighter / etc because they got spells (eg. word of faith / hammer of gods / etc) and buffs (everything you ever want). Scary.



--------------------
<My Character Thingies>

Arkinsire of Panor - Elven Ranger(10)/Assassin(7)
color=red]Brave Sir Robin[/color] - Human (Scaredy) Cleric(14)
Li'liath Genivia - Elven Fighter(7) - Potential Blackguard
Su-Char - Elven Fighter(6)/Monk(6)/Champion of Mithra(5)

teh wall of spear. Teh uber tank. Teh little ama that could (tank). - Dave.
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Phage
Posted: Sep 18 2004, 10:21 AM
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Divine Asskickerologist


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Ya know, the more I read about it, the more I'm convinced that a guide is really not necessary: what I need is a thread like this, soliciting testimonials from cleric players that the class r0xx0rz tongue.gif

Hmm.


--------------------
Veni, vidi, dormivi. - I came, I saw... I slept.
-----------------------------
Current writing project (on hold): The Hidden Depths
Check out A Guide to Divine Asskickery - DN Cleric Guide!
"Prestige classes are classes that every player would like their characters to have, but must first gain permission from Wizards of the Coast before their character can take one." - RPGA test
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dave
Posted: Sep 18 2004, 11:12 AM
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shad but true


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QUOTE (D_Spear @ Sep 18 2004, 11:51 AM)
Sorry for mini hijack tongue.gif Basically, erm, clerics are awesome fighters, way better then a barb / fighter / etc because they got spells (eg. word of faith / hammer of gods / etc) and buffs (everything you ever want). Scary.

Np, nice little write up too, D. Not every cleric gets stoneskin and haste, but those are popular domain spels. smile.gif

With castable truesight, my L16/17 air/magic girl was having a lot of fun in scablands last time I playtested the latest revs there, as well. I'll have to try her out with arQon's spell system when I get back to DN.

D, if *you* have a chance, try Mants and Grey slaadi again to see how dispels work. arQon's spellscripts completely re-write the system, and I'm very interested in any feedback you might have for it.

As for snow shades and grey slaadi, noteed, tyvm.

-shad


--------------------
Dreu Noctem
- featuring arQon's EMS Spell system
- DN Bug reports go here or here!


[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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dave
Posted: Sep 18 2004, 11:12 AM
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shad but true


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QUOTE (D_Spear @ Sep 18 2004, 11:51 AM)
Sorry for mini hijack tongue.gif Basically, erm, clerics are awesome fighters, way better then a barb / fighter / etc because they got spells (eg. word of faith / hammer of gods / etc) and buffs (everything you ever want). Scary.

Np, nice little write up too, D. Not every cleric gets stoneskin and haste, but those are popular domain spells. smile.gif

With castable truesight, my L16/17 air/magic girl was having a lot of fun in scablands last time I playtested the latest revs there, as well. I'll have to try her out with arQon's spell system when I get back to DN.

D, if *you* have a chance, try Mants and Grey slaadi again to see how dispels work. arQon's spellscripts completely re-write the system, and I'm very interested in any feedback you might have for it.

As for snow shades and grey slaadi, noteed, tyvm.

-shad


--------------------
Dreu Noctem
- featuring arQon's EMS Spell system
- DN Bug reports go here or here!


[12:32] <arQon> i can design a munchkin in 2 minutes, but it takes me hours to pick a name :P
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D_Spear
Posted: Sep 19 2004, 02:12 AM
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Valkrye Conoisseur


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Dave does the double post of doom, o the alliteration.

Okies dave, will try.

I'll know if its too hard for clerics because ill die ;P


--------------------
<My Character Thingies>

Arkinsire of Panor - Elven Ranger(10)/Assassin(7)
color=red]Brave Sir Robin[/color] - Human (Scaredy) Cleric(14)
Li'liath Genivia - Elven Fighter(7) - Potential Blackguard
Su-Char - Elven Fighter(6)/Monk(6)/Champion of Mithra(5)

teh wall of spear. Teh uber tank. Teh little ama that could (tank). - Dave.
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Emaleth_Donnelaith
Posted: Sep 28 2004, 01:45 AM
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Dragonslayer


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I've pretty much based most of my clerics on this.. Jini's Battle Priest of Kelemvor. Death & Magic domains and Lawful Neutral.

Now most of the spells I have favored (i.e., Harm, Word of Faith, Storm of Vengeance, etc) were pretty much moot on DN... unless they have been retweaked to work now. I suppose my question is, should I keep Marissa and just re-do her spells and figure out which ones would work for her as far as firepower goes (she had a big bastard sword to whack things with).. or should I just stick her deeper in the closet and try for something new?

I played her more of a destruction of 'all who are dead and other critters' cleric than a healer, although I did keep healing spells in the background.. namely resurrection & raise dead. I do still play her in SP mods and more than likely will, but for DN purposes, perhaps I should rethink on her strategy?

If the character lists here are accurate (lol, have to log in to find what stats are by equipment) this is what her base is at level 20:

Strength 12
Dexterity 12
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10 - 12 with boosts..might be 14 too lol, memory fails
Wisdom 21 - 31 with boosts
Charisma 12

I do know I need to use a few things.. like better armor (ac of 35 I believe) and Amulet of Health (all jewelry boosts her Wisdom up) as she can get pretty weak and die's gracefully in places like Scablands from disease).. hard to sacrifice boosts.. especially when it comes to her Wisdom for spells.

Will have to get her out maybe tonight and do some 'Amokness'. Thanks for any advice ahead o time!

EDIT: Added boosters to stats.


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